Discover Maarten's Healing Odyssey: From Kidney Transplants to Qigong Mastery
This podcast recording was an interview from We Are Medicine Women, a project I was developing from 2020-2021.
The recordings are the recognition of how powerful we are. I trust this will be good medicine for you.
Enjoy!
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[00:00:00] Mary: All right, let's do this Maarten. I'm so excited to have you, to be speaking with you.
[00:00:06] Give you a little background about this podcast project. I have been a Chinese medical practitioner for over 11 years. And been doing coaching and holistic healing methodologies.
[00:00:18] There are lots of examples of ways the body can heal, how people can heal and become whole that I'm interested in that I'd like to bring light to. That's what this is about having reflective conversations with people about either their healing process or perhaps what they're teaching or both to give people a sense of what's possible. And so that's why you're here. I think you're the perfect guest considering you've been through a lot of Western medical procedures. You've also been a practitioner of qigong, the same style of qigong that I'm also learning and practicing and teaching. So what I'd really like to start out with you is just to say again, thank you for taking the time to be with me and to be in wonder about how amazing life is. I'd like to be in awe of how life is showing up and how life continues to flourish, no matter our circumstances.
[00:01:33] Tell my listeners where are you right now? Where are you physically sitting down?
[00:01:39] Maarten: Yes. Thank you. I'm physically sitting down in a room in my house, in the forest, in the neighborhood of a big city called Antwerp in Belgium. Belgium is also known for Brussels and is also the capital of Europe. So I'm about 45 kilometers from this city of Brussels in the middle of Europe, you can say, maybe western Europe. And I should say, physically, I'm here. I feel very well at this moment and I'm relaxed talking to you.
[00:02:10] Mary: I have been following you primarily on Facebook, I think it was during the height of the pandemic.
[00:02:20] I had more unstructured time. I closed my office for a little bit and then was practicing, of course, what I was instructed to do between the times that we meet up with our cohort. And so I was coming to your classes in awe of your teaching style. I learned so much. That's another reason why you're here. You've studied with a lot of different practitioners. The other thing that has caught my attention about you is you have also written a book it's called Indomitableness: How to Find Your True Nature. I have so many questions about this entire story that you've written. It's quite a vulnerable thing to write about. When you're ill or have been in a process of going through countless surgeries, in and out of the hospital. It's a precious place.
[00:03:12] It's a really vulnerable place. I also really want to thank you for writing the book because it gave me, great peace actually, to read your words. And I want you to know that I find your book medicinal. It's medicine. So I want you to know that.
[00:03:29] Why don't you tell why you wrote the book and that way you can include some highlights of your journey through your life up until today. What would you like to start with, your process for how you came to where you are right now?
[00:03:44] Maarten: Yes, thank you for that, about a book. I think as we experience now, is that practice of whatever you do daily life or during qigong or whatever method you practice. I really want to keep it to the present moment. And that means, if I look back at the book when I started it, this was maybe 22 years ago when I first started the diary.
[00:04:12] And I also, I mixed a little bit of where I come from, so yeah. 22 years ago, I was in a country called Mozambique. I just had my first kidney transplant and I was around 33 years of age and I felt wonderfully. Just a few years before I was hospitalized. And certainly my kidneys were completely down. I had suffered from high blood pressure, maybe for very long time, maybe since childhood.
[00:04:45] So Western medical care came exactly at the right moment. I grew up in a family of four children. I was the youngest. When I was around 10 years of age, I had allergies. Didn't have any reason why I had them, but I had them anyway. They were treated with medicine, seemed to be bad for my kidneys. I didn't know. Nobody knew. And I continue up to 27 years of age, always thinking there was something wrong, but I continue ,I study. I went to university. That's a normal thing like everybody else, but always in the back of my mind was something wrong. So when my kidneys broke down, according to Western medicine, only 35% function. They said you have to be on dialysis in two years. It was bitter sweet. In a way that felt like, okay, now I know what I felt all the time in my life, from 15 years of age, and on the other hand, of course, failing kidneys would certainly kill me if I didn't have any treatment.
[00:05:50] It was also the beginning of the new life in being independent. I became dependent in medicine. And maybe at the same time I was lying in bed and having let's say a needle in my back to see what was left of my kidneys. I also felt I don't want to die yet. And I still have something in me that I want to share with the world or with myself, but it was not clear.
[00:06:17] There was only this force of life within. Now I can say at 55 years of age, I can say I'm surrounded by my apartment, by my dogs and a lot of people that care for me. It's not really about me anymore. It's really something I can share with the world that I'm really grateful for.
[00:06:38] It's a big step to open, to share with the world without really putting forward the ego, which is the biggest challenge, of course. When I wrote a book, I think, actually for sure that there was no ego and I was just on my back in a hospital or somewhere. You read the book. There was another crisis going on.
[00:07:00] And I continued writing nevertheless. I decided to share the book with an editor. She's also a qigong practitioner. For me, then it was open into the world. This was enough, I shared it with the world, my own world opening up. One thing led to the other, but that first step was really important for me. Why I wrote the book was really open myself. You say vulnerable and I agree. It's quite vulnerable.
[00:07:29] It's already a little bit of the past. I'm so happy to say that already the book is now out for one year, but I wrote it a long time ago. So yeah, this is my place in the world. This is where I come from. And I'm really grateful for this small thing that I am, a qi particle in the big universe.
[00:07:53] Mary: I was thinking about this, preparing for our conversation and knowing the present moment now is really what matters. The process in how you got here. The thing I want to presence for people is that with kidney disease, it's quite serious.
[00:08:12] And in a nutshell, if you will, as I too, would like to focus more on the present and the power of qigong, the immense benefits for undertaking practice. But I do want to highlight for people you've had two kidney transplants, and you also had a heart attack in your young years.
[00:08:31] What I read in your book was that you realized that Western medicine could only take you so far. That for true healing, it would take something else. It would take a kind of a knowing, a deep sense of knowing that your body did have this, as you say, indomitableness, this deep sense of healing capacity that's much bigger life force, that's connected to all things around us. So I wanted to just talk a little bit about the gifts of Western medicine and then how decided to transfer yourself into more of, for lack of a better term, holistic medicine, because it doesn't quite give people a sense of what qigong medicine is.
[00:09:24] It is part of the Chinese medicine tools. There are many, as you point out in your book, with herbs and massage and acupuncture, and meridian systems and all that stuff. I'm wondering what were the gifts of Western medicine and what are the great gifts of qigong medicine?
[00:09:39] Maarten: Yeah it's several things. First of all, to open yourself. I opened myself because regardless of Western medicine or being psychologist, I was very comfortable with people when other people were sharing the difficulties and suffering or trouble, I felt it difficult to open myself to the world. I withheld myself. I didn't find the right words. And you can say a lot, you can talk a lot, but feeling inside, connection inside, which brings us back to the present moment, always it's important to share.
[00:10:17] How does this relate to the Western medicine? I say because of opening myself, I could rebuild the relationship with any kind of medicine. I could open to any kind of, you can say, a religion or you can say a view or anything that people need or open to to let themselves be healed.
[00:10:43] It's holistic because you cannot break it apart. Whatever helps people to open themselves is enough. It's good. You feel inside. If the qi or the energy is flowing, if there are no boundaries where you don't feel blockages in your emotions or your mind or physically.
[00:11:04] And I think we all know that Western medicine can have the effect on people, and throwing my body into the hospital and you take care of it. You having a white coat and do what to do.
[00:11:14] Mary: Hand ourselves over to someone else to say about how our body is doing.
[00:11:20] Maarten: Yes. What nobody realizes at the moment you're in this position is the mixing of what you have for yourself, your own feelings, your own body, your own emotions, your thoughts, your mind, your power is easily also given to the person.
[00:11:42] So depending on the person or the hospital, on the staff of the hospital, maybe even on the medicine itself, that's takes away your own healing power. Somehow within, I always felt that I don't want to happen. I don't want to give myself away to a doctor that might have studied for a long time, but I know more. It's my life.
[00:12:08] But this was just the start. Because of course, if you feel bad because physically, you see your body changing. I gained 10 kilos or 10 liters I retained of water. Then you feel cold and everything. I was not trained. I was not from a background that easily you open to say, okay, I accept and just die.
[00:12:29] This is also a possibility. We always think we have no possibility, but the option was also to accept everything as it is, and just go, leave this place. This is an important point for myself, and then to share this. I did in the book is there were still a life ahead for me.
[00:12:47] Then this whole energy of sharing of all is holistic. You need another. You need nature. You need to talk to a tree, you need to talk to friends, you need to do anything that helps to release inside stress that we built up during our lives. We all have our preferred methods. What happened to me was that I had set very high goals, always. I was goal oriented. I used to climb and do things that really challenged me physically as well. The higher the goals I set, the bigger the frustration of course, because when you don't meet your goals, it's like blame or it's guilt or a punishment on yourself. It's really about having to see yourself, the way you are, to accept yourself. And this, I think between first transplant and the end of this transplant, it was then when I also became a little bit older, I started to realize that seeing yourself or at least anything in life happen is what you are. Your emotions is not somebody else. The physical feelings is not somebody else. This was also an effect of the medical, the Western medical part, where trust as a basic concept of holistic. Everything happens to you, happens in the right time, the right moment. Any information, any thinking, any emotions happening, any physical, it's all there because it's part of me.
[00:14:31] It's part of myself. It's not something separate. And this was really the effect of opening. Comparing this with the Western medicine, I have a lot of experience with it and many people have in the Western world. It leads to a lot of unrest. It leads to a lot of anxiety, fear, giving up hope is easily leading to despair. And as I say, I never gave up on being independent. Holistic medicine is really for me about having no hope, no expectations, no fear, no doubt. And this is something that came to me when I was around 2008 and my wife, who said, I'm going to China for this masterclass.
[00:15:27] It was at that time I realized, wow. After four days, really, after four days, I feel so much connection, inner connection, which I have lost for a long time. Then I feel this inner connection with everything, everyone I have trouble with doctors, with friends. I was really feeling inside and this opened myself. This is actually the important moment for me to also let go of any expectations.
[00:16:04] Mary: Yeah. I'm actually pleased to hear you say having no hope. What I've been listening to practitioners, they're not qigong practitioners, but other people that I love listening to how they frame life.
[00:16:17] But this idea of hope seems to me to be a place of, oh maybe something will work out in the future, which means that you're not really here in the present, which is where everything is. Hope seems to be what a lot of people, I hope this will work well. It sounds like you are too.
[00:16:38] If we let go of hope and doubt and fear and all the associated emotions, what you have is this exquisite now where everything is. So you get to experience life much more fully.
[00:16:54] What I'm also hearing you say is when you came to qigong practice and you felt this opening and expansive, you felt, like I do, all is right in the world. And it's something that you have to keep practicing.
[00:17:10] Is that your experience? It seems like this is a long-term commitment. Certainly there are short-term benefits. Absolutely. But I was also reading your book, it's really, the more you practice, the relatively straightforward movements that everybody pretty much can do, but the more you practice, you go deeper and there's different nuances and levels that you reach.
[00:17:38] Maarten: Yes. For many people and I'm one of them is life is all about connection. About living. About being. I remember in 2011, I was in a retreat and what do you want to get out of this retreat? It was a qigong retreat in China. We wrote down on a piece of paper, what you want to get out of this retreat?
[00:18:02] I wrote down just 'be'. And many people were asking, were waiting for me to add something else, just be love, happiness. This created a lot of rumor for me. I was laughing because nobody expected to say just be. And so what you just said refer to as the exquisite moment of now is how much time you can spend being, just being. How much time you really are this qi, this energy. All life is energy and everything is flow. For me, it's forget you are practicing, then you are practicing. If you still think you're practicing all the time, you have to do all this hard work. So when qigong came, I wanted of course, first time you have this expansiveness, this open and we feel everything sort of peaceful.
[00:18:57] Then you want it, again. It becomes like something you want from outside. It becomes forced. And then of course, when you're looking for it, it doesn't come. When searching, the mind start searching for it, it doesn't come. And yeah, I had no time really because I wasn't in that place. My kidneys went down again or my transplant kidney went down and we got very sick, physically sick, throwing up and my gall bladder problems. So many problems, I have no time. I just elevated myself during practice from this physical needs, sufferings. Here's where the Western medicine I really started to inside trying to find escapes from the Western medicine.
[00:19:44] There you have a practice in your life that takes you away from the body, the suffering body. And this trouble I had, I didn't say that in the beginning, but it turned out to be my best friend. Another teacher said " how do you know what your path is"?
[00:20:02] Normally you don't, you own the path. You are your path, you are in the now. Only because of your troubles, where the path is. You bump into something, okay, now I know this is my path. This teacher said, trouble is probably your best friend in life.
[00:20:19] I felt very emotional about this because I realized after all those years, I was still looking for something that would bring down my trouble. And he said no, you should keep it. I was blown away by that. It took me a long time that humanity, we have a lot of shortcomings. And not so long ago, I read a book about, a lot of shortcomes, physically psychologically, knowledge, existentially. There's a lot of the shortcomings that we have that we are very fragile as human, as humanity. Often we take decisions that have a large impact on ourselves, but also on other people. We're always short of information about what is the truth.
[00:21:08] I realized when all this trouble came, I worked and went on dialysis for five years and I really suffered, I have to say strange, inner, inner acceptance, that all this, the suffering, all this, fighting against disease, fighting against my situation. My ego is playing.
[00:21:30] I don't want is any more, suffering. And suddenly I realize I have to change in something that says, start your life from what you already have. The good and the bad things are one. If you only look at the good, there's also a lot of bad. Good and bad are on the same side .Good, bad, one side.
[00:21:57] This is where I realized I need to restart my life for what I have. And suddenly my life opened again. So after this first episode I shared with you, for four days after I started qigong, it took me another five years to realize why I had this opening, why I had this inner connection. I was coming to the point, I was accepting everything in my life, not only the troubles, but also the good things. They belong to each other. They're part of the same thing. Another aspect of it was that I also realized maybe with dialysis, how many years I still have. There was also death or living closer to death that I realized if I'm dying, I don't want to die suffering or in trouble, mind troubled.
[00:23:02] I do want to open to any aspect of life. And then I look at other teachers, other people, and this is what they do is the same. It's not only me. It's not about me. And my sharing still needs to continue. I still need to open more and more to many people, and no expectations. Trouble is your best friend is helping them to grow as a person in this world.
[00:23:32] Mary: I had my very first mentor in Chinese medicine was a man who passed in 2016. I did an apprenticeship with him. He founded the acupuncture school that I went to in Maryland here in the states. He would tell us that the power of what you're doing, the needle that you're placing... your words are needles, for example. And your asthma, the diagnosis that someone's presenting is their best friend. You can help the person learn to befriend it and not be in opposition to it, that's the type of support you want to be able to give. You don't want to go in there and fix it because there's something really profound and deep for people to learn about themselves, so help them. What you said is make trouble your best friend is for me, yes, it is. It is our greatest teacher. Trouble.
[00:24:26] Maarten: So how do we go about it this trouble.
[00:24:30] Mary: We've got a lot of them. We've got personal trouble, we've got global trouble. We've got community trouble. They're all mirrors of each other though. Everything's a mirror, a hologram, my teacher his name was Robert Duggan used to say. Everything's a hologram. You can really start anywhere. Everything's representing each other.
[00:24:47] What I'm curious about now, so you are feeling very good these days. Life is good?.
[00:24:56] Maarten: Yeah, it's an interesting question for myself too, in a way, I said, oh wait, 2001st transplant. In 2013, I went on dialysis. 2018, so this is three and a half years ago, I received a new life. I really see it that way. Being on my back, having 2% kidney function is barely enough to stay alive, hence the heart attack, too. For the listeners, maybe interesting, it's that moment that has showed the expansion to surrender to all the trouble I had accepting that also the pain goes away. Any pain, any limitation, anything that the ego doesn't, I really felt I was looking into the ocean and I said to myself, this is a perfect moment, to let go, to really whatever happens, maybe even I'm dying.
[00:25:51] So not only coming back from the beach in France, I really felt that they this big expansion of letting go. Be one with it all. It's really difficult to bring it across in a feeling, but this is what I felt. I had a lot of pain, a lot of suffering, couldn't sleep. A lot of trouble with blood pressure.
[00:26:14] All of this gone within 48 hours after I experienced this. And the best thing, of course, was that I got the phone call from my hospital out of Belgium and they said, you need to come back now. After five years of dialysis, we have a kidney for you. And this you can say is a life saving kidney.
[00:26:36] And, it gave me a heart attack still on the operation table. It was really a big moment, but maybe because I've had this moment on the beach, there was so much trust, acceptance. And whatever happens, even if I would have died, no problem. When I woke up and they said to me that you have to take care of it because you had a heart attack. I said, oh, I said to myself, no problem. I'm here, I'm alive. I already felt the before I even knew I was going to have a transplant. This feeling of a new life continue up to now. You can say I'm living the dream to still be here. A dream I'm still living with my parents, that I might survive my parents, but my parents are now 88, 89.
[00:27:24] They're quite old and lots of health troubles for my father and to survive them, there's lots of things that I spoke with him about that I wouldn't have had. I wouldn't be alive, but also when I didn't have this health that I have now. And the second thing of course is being there for maybe better to say without my people around me. My love, my partner, my wife Hester. This is, wow, this is feeling really, no ego, just be really grateful. I would like to continue wherever I am, continue with my teaching, with my being, with my friends and so on.
[00:28:09] So regardless if the kidney says, just assume it's time that you start living on your own again, I get my kidney has given me enough energy or qi and you're borrowed enough qi and now it's up to you. I also say, my feeling inside is I'm grateful for the chance to have another part of this life.
[00:28:31] Also it helped me to grow to accept this time when it will be time to leave. I don't need another Western medical big operation, or influence. I won't let go. This is maybe a promise to myself, but this is my, I cannot say graduation, but this is my next moment in life. I say, I am open to let go naturally giving myself back to nature away from the Western medicine.
[00:28:59] Mary: I love that because I think that's where your true power lies and all of ours, this understanding that, when it comes down to it, you're interconnected to all the things that really nourish you or that really support you is really all that you need.
[00:29:15] And so I'm curious about what you're teaching? How can people practice or learn from you with you?
[00:29:25] Maarten: So first, I present my teachings. First, is to the groups I have in my local communities. And those come first because when I was on dialysis, I really feel okay to go teaching and I don't feel well, I'm so tired and need sleep. I dragged myself in front of them and said, this is who I am. Can I share with you something? And then they always stayed with me. They have seen me going through difficult phases and now it's better again. So that I really love.
[00:29:56] Then the second way of teaching, of course now, is online which is still the same teaching of Zhineng qigong. Is still sharing.
[00:30:06] So the way I teach is some theory about qigong, making a qi field, having some conversations with a few of the participants. And then do a method or technique out of the big, let's say, toolbox I've built up which I never prepare. And, this is the also connected to the third part.
[00:30:24] I think when we are in the qi field, in the present moment which comes to us, it's not something we can create as such then, we know what to do. What I'm sharing with you during my talking, I realized this is my way of teaching. So I share with people what comes up to the moment. I don't prepare and I trust the qi field that whatever is present, that is enough for me and for the participants, that we all benefit from this qi field. We have as this practice that helps them to overlap this a little bit with their daily life. This is what I see, 23 hours we don't practice, but everything in life is practice so we can overlap our qigong practice.
[00:31:09] When I teach , I announce it on Facebook or other emails. And it continues to grow into very when normally during the week times, three times, maybe four times I go online. And this is where teaching, I don't like to say the word teaching and I'd say we're sharing.
[00:31:30] It's the qi- channel, right? Is that the Facebook group as well as the website?
[00:31:36] Yes. qi- channel. This idea of the qi-channel website is also to help other people find resources. Many Chinese teachers that are around then this is so they can check what we put on there. So people have free access to Zhineng qigong resources.
[00:31:57] Mary: Wonderful. And so are you teaching three to four times a week? And then on top of that, do you do your own personal practice on a daily basis to keep yourself well and healthy and grounded?
[00:32:10] Maarten: Yeah. So a typical day, I go to bed around 11. Basically we always read something about the book of Rumi, the Sufi from Persia. And we share something about a Dao de Jing. And then we go to sleep. Then in the early morning, maybe I wake up in the night sometimes and I do a practice lying in bed. It's doing Lift Qi Up, which is one of the methods is actually move arms and legs, or maybe the arms in the whole body. But then I do it visually, just a mind practice. I put my hands on my navel and just relaxing, which is also a good practice to bring the qi to the lower dantian.
[00:32:51] My morning ritual, I do arm movements, leg movements, but basically setting up a qi field. I do it in the same place in the house, the same length, so almost an hour or maybe longer.
[00:33:06] Then I'm ready for day. My practice also is to walk a lot, do a lot of hiking, especially with my new girl dog, she has a lot of energy. So we go out for 3, 4 kilometers raining, snowing, whatever it is. I really like it.
[00:33:22] And then I'm writing another book. I do a lot of things in and around the house. I really cherish my freedom of course, after five years being on dialysis. And again, my partner really helps me to be as flexible but we are as we want to be.
[00:33:39] In the afternoon I go deeper meditation. I do a lot of stretching, too. I like stretching. I believe in stretching. I think releasing the neck stretching and leg stretching, lower back stretching really helps us to unlock many points in the body that somehow get tight or stressed during the day, unleashing a lot of energy that I don't need anymore.
[00:34:04] Mary: Again, I want to thank you for speaking with me. And as a colleague, I see you as an amazing practitioner and we'll always look to you and be checking out what you're up to.
[00:34:14] If someone's listening to this and thinking, there's no way qigong is going to help me with, fill in the blank because my doctor said so, or my doctor rolled his eyes or her eyes, or didn't really know anything about it. What would you say to that person who doubts that this medicine could actually help.
[00:34:40] Maarten: This is really, really interesting because everything is inside. So life cannot be broken apart, cannot be separated. We can, from a logical way, the doctor can say, you need to do this. And you don't do, you have so many years to live, but in the end, it's us, it's up to us. And it's our life.
[00:35:06] So I hope, first of all, you take back your life and really open to the endless possibilities and have no limitations. There's so much we don't know. It's better to start with what you don't know from things happening that are automatically happening to you already. Then to focus on the form, where they say you have this disease, it's already happened in the past. And, this past life, really, when you can transform it into anything related to the present moment really supporting you, then I think already you are a practitioner. Watching and observing all the troubles you've had completely accepting them, even accept them to the point that, whatever disease or whatever name is given to you, it's not you. You're not your body, you're not your mind, you're not your spine. There's a deeper inside. And I hope people can go deeper inside out any limitations.
[00:36:22] Mary: Thank you, Maarten. It's been an absolute joy to speak with you and to hang out, having our qi fields intentionally connected for this wonderful, very powerful conversation. So again, thank you for your time.
[00:36:38] Maarten: Thank you very much, Mary. Thank you for speaking and talking with me. It was a good day.
